Curse

Chicken Ftw · Sep 02, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

What does Vow Of Silence do?

Suck, except in a few extremely rare occasions... actually, I can't think of a single one where I'd use VoS over another derv elite.

Age · Sep 02, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

th

Quote:

Originally Posted byDarkpower Alchemist@Age...you don't seem to grasp the english language too well, so I'll make it simple for you to grasp. Tanks move constantly, slow or fast, and appear to be virtually unstoppable on the field of battle. The general thought of a tank in games is a static(stationary) tank(target). The 2 concept do not contradict each other, but use the same jargon to explain 2 totally different actions/activities. To tank someone and to Tank for a group/an area doesn't mean the same thing.

The thing is I do grasp it very well but like I said Tanks don't deal damage they absorb it.That is not what the Warrior in GW is used for they are use to Dish out damage in other words damage dealers.What you suggest goes against the very nature of the game mechanics for the Warrior.I have been playing since way back in beta.

No Avatar belongs on a Warriors bar as they can't use it due to the factey don't have the primary attribute to support it.You are giving bad suggestions here as you are in the Monk forum.

I Is Special · Sep 02, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

you'd realise Dervish are not useless during Avatar downtimes. Far from it, actually.

They're not useless at all. They (99 out of 100 times) carry mystic regeneration, vital boon, pouis signet, faithful intervention, and who knows what else, just to stay alive.

They're they new W/mo's with HH, healing breeze, and mending, except now those crappy skills come from its own class.

blue.rellik · Sep 03, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

These are from primary attribute lines:

[skill]Avatar Of Dwayna[/skill] What warrior skill has that self heal and hex removal on skill usage?

[skill]Avatar Of Lyssa[/skill] How can a Warrior hit +60 or so damage on foes using skills? That's not including the base damage either btw (Mystic sweep for say, another +30 damage?

[skill]Avatar Of Melandru[/skill] Which Warrior skill makes you immune to conditions?

[skill]Avatar Of Grenth[/skill] Although nerfed so badly, does a Warrior have enchant strip PER HIT..?

Avatar of Balthazar i won't mention as its a pathetic skill anyway....

A Dervish is much more worthless than a Warrior most of the time? You know nothing....

The problem is that a warrior is beaten by melee hate. A Dervish is beaten by both caster AND melee hate. That is why a warrior can survive purely on WY and Heal sig while a dervish needs all those enchantments and whatnot to survive.

Detis Zan · Sep 03, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

And I stamp this thread CLOGGED.

You guys are so off track of the whole subject and the OP's question was answered a long time ago, @#$! the OP prolly has no damn clue what everyone is saying and swaying the poor soul on what the hell to do.

Let this die and start a Thread: Warrior Vs. Dervish. There, now bitch in there about the difference on Dervs different play style and avatars against Warriors dmg output and what not. I'm surprised by some people in this thread (Even Ensign who's sig is "Never argue with an idiot") and enough flames to burn a fire djinn.

At any rate everyone ruined this thread with arguments that A, Don't apply to the thread and B, provide information that's useless all around. So please, no more, don't feed it.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 03, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Suck, except in a few extremely rare occasions... actually, I can't think of a single one where I'd use VoS over another derv elite.

Immunity to casters doesn't suck, period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Is Special

They're not useless at all. They (99 out of 100 times) carry mystic regeneration, vital boon, pouis signet, faithful intervention, and who knows what else, just to stay alive.

They're they new W/mo's with HH, healing breeze, and mending, except now those crappy skills come from its own class.

I'm sorry that you judge your opinions of a class on PUG idiots. My Dervish is obviously that 1 in a 100 i guess. I'll continue to roll out my constant 100+ hits regardless of what you think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

The problem is that a warrior is beaten by melee hate. A Dervish is beaten by both caster AND melee hate. That is why a warrior can survive purely on WY and Heal sig while a dervish needs all those enchantments and whatnot to survive.

We don't need "all those enchantments". You put a few on the bar to counter the situation you will be facing. Fact is, the Dervish has plenty of skills to counter any situation, and if a Warrior can counter degen, melee hate hexes and god knows what else with WY and a -40 armour during activation heal sig (which takes them 2 secs to just stop fighting for that, a Dervish throws up the self heals before a fight and hardly has to worry about healing.) i rest my case.

However,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detis Zan

And I stamp this thread CLOGGED.

You guys are so off track of the whole subject and the OP's question was answered a long time ago, @#$! the OP prolly has no damn clue what everyone is saying and swaying the poor soul on what the hell to do.

Let this die and start a Thread: Warrior Vs. Dervish. There, now bitch in there about the difference on Dervs different play style and avatars against Warriors dmg output and what not. I'm surprised by some people in this thread (Even Ensign who's sig is "Never argue with an idiot") and enough flames to burn a fire djinn.

At any rate everyone ruined this thread with arguments that A, Don't apply to the thread and B, provide information that's useless all around. So please, no more, don't feed it.

QFT. I said this in my very first reply. But starting a Warrior vs Dervish thread in this section would be kinda pointless. 90% of the idiots here have no clue about the Dervish, so it wouldn't be a fair argument / debate

Mercurio · Sep 03, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

cheddarbox, you can see that every class is useful in GW

Simply choose the one is more appropriate to your game style, and/or to your guild's strategy.
I suggest to start with a warrior if you are new, because it is a core profession and so you don't need to learn some advanced game mechanisms to be effective.

The worst thing of melee classes is that others can easily see your errors, while in pve nobody cares what a ranger or ele do.

(btw ihmo a bad warrior is less worse than a bad assassin or a bad dervish for a pve team. At least he doesn't need too much heal

.)

Perfected Shadow · Sep 03, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

If played right, warriors can be very useful, it's just the Mending/HH/HB wammos that give them a bad reputation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That is not what the Warrior in GW is used for they are use to Dish out damage in other words damage dealers.

You're only talking about pvp. With the highest armor rating, warriors ARE used as tanks in pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheddarbox

I've been told that warriors are really not all that useful since the dervish appeared. I've heard that dervishes tank just as good if not better then warriors, yet deal a lot more damage, and aoe damage at that.

About tanking, pile prot enchantments, Spellbreaker, etc on someone and voila, you have a tank. Dervishes just have better self healing capability, but warriors have the advantage in base armor. I'm not sure how to compare damage accurately. But I'm sure Dervishes don't necessarily 'deal a lot more damage'. The aoe is only adjacent range.

For warrior, try:
[skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Conjure Flame[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Whirlwind Attack[/skill]
See if you like the damage. If you love hack and slash, then warrior is for you, no need to stop to cast/pre-cast enchantments like a dervish does, you just charge in and kill shit (don't go too far from your monks though).

About AoB, I still use it... Ever tried vanquishing and can't find the last few monsters? AoB can alleviate some impatience ; ).

Tyla · Sep 03, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Pointless? Run Melandru or any other form? Neither is part of the conversation. And yes, the warrior needs 3 slots to be effective. Speed boost, IAS, Armor upgrade. 2 minimum if the armor bonus skill isn't being used.

[skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Dash[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill]=[skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill][skill]Heart of Fury[/skill]

Swap out for Flail, and the same scenario applies. Take out Balthazar for another form, and the derv needs a speed boost and lacks the armor that naturally comes with balthazar. My point being that a warrior would need 3 slots minimum to equal up to a AoB Derv in mobility and equal functionality. I wouldn't even throw out the assumption that someone here doesn't know what they're doing because it would be unfounded. I'll chalk it up to taste.

You can't argue taste.

lets see...when you tank,your supposed to stay where you are ANYWAY.and AoB=maybe its 40 armour,but its a huge waste of an elite slot.dolyak signet gives armour and an anti knockdown and shares the anti-strip thing of what AoB has.but im not saying dervs are useless,AoB:truly worthless skill which you can get better anyway thats NOT elite.

[skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill] < [skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill]

Nexus Icon · Sep 03, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

People are also forgetting that Dolyak Signet is instant activation and can't be interrupted...

Chicken Ftw · Sep 03, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Immunity to casters doesn't suck, period.

Actually, it does. Unless you're in DoA or something, where Obs Flesh is still superior imo. In other zones, why would you want to use up your elite so that casters (including your own backline) won't be able to target you? Have fun getting no heals when your face is being smashed in by melee. If your argument is that you take too much damage from casters outside the elite areas, wtb better monks. There is no reason to use VoS instead of a better elite.

Side note: I'm not saying dervs suck. I'm simply giving advice so that if he does make a dervish, he won't fill his bar with shit like AoB or VoS. Dervs are great, when used properly. I own both a derv and a war, and use both equally.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 03, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Actually, it does. Unless you're in DoA or something, where Obs Flesh is still superior imo. In other zones, why would you want to use up your elite so that casters (including your own backline) won't be able to target you? Have fun getting no heals when your face is being smashed in by melee. If your argument is that you take too much damage from casters outside the elite areas, wtb better monks. There is no reason to use VoS instead of a better elite.

Side note: I'm not saying dervs suck. I'm simply giving advice so that if he does make a dervish, he won't fill his bar with shit like AoB or VoS. Dervs are great, when used properly. I own both a derv and a war, and use both equally.

Dervish have self heals!! You shouldn't need a monk with VoS. Simply throw up a few 1/4 self healing enchants during VoS downtime. Combine it with Physical Resistance and the like.. and you won't get "smashed in" by melee mobs. It also works perfectly dualing tombs, and pretty much any area in the game, with a hero bonder.. so gg there.

Chicken Ftw · Sep 03, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Dervish have self heals!! You shouldn't need a monk with VoS. Simply throw up a few 1/4 self healing enchants during VoS downtime. Combine it with Physical Resistance and the like.. and you won't get "smashed in" by melee mobs. It also works perfectly dualing tombs, and pretty much any area in the game, with a hero bonder.. so gg there.

Or, you could use a decent elite like Lyssa, and leave the healing to your monks, while you fill your bar with damage skills instead of protection from spells and self-heals. Y'know, play a decent derv bar, instead of a self-supporting one that's only good for farming. But hey, maybe I'm the only one here who doesn't feel the need to tank on a dervish, whatever.

Stormlord Alex · Sep 03, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

But hey, maybe I'm the only one here who doesn't feel the need to tank on a dervish, whatever.

Oh, you ain't alone.
Maybe it's the... uhh... god-knows-how-long playing a *decent* Warrior...
But I cringe if I even think of wasting half my Derv's bar on defense. At the most, it's Watchful Intervention ... or Dwayna spamming attacks...
Mostly, I run heroes that don't suck, and don't waste my time with PuGs.
Then I can get round to owning face, Dervs are really good at it in PvE

~ Dan ~ · Sep 04, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Or, you could use a decent elite like Lyssa, and leave the healing to your monks, while you fill your bar with damage skills instead of protection from spells and self-heals. Y'know, play a decent derv bar, instead of a self-supporting one that's only good for farming. But hey, maybe I'm the only one here who doesn't feel the need to tank on a dervish, whatever.

I've played Dervish for 7months, i can play a good bar tyvm. Yep, Lyssa > VoS, i never said VoS is the best elite in the Dervish line, choose it over every other elite!!!1!2! It does work perfectly in that dual farming build, no other elite fits. But tbh, i hardly (if ever) use it outside of that build. Doesn't mean it isn't a good elite, it is.

P.S. I'm all for full out damage Dervish too, that's how i play it. Doesn't mean certain skills aren't good for certain situations. Caster heavy area? Take VoS, gg.

blue.rellik · Sep 04, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Immunity to casters doesn't suck, period.

And then you get mashed in by some sins and/or warriors and your monk goes to heal you but.......

Quote:

I'm sorry that you judge your opinions of a class on PUG idiots. My Dervish is obviously that 1 in a 100 i guess. I'll continue to roll out my constant 100+ hits regardless of what you think.

I find it hard to believe that you can consistently hit +100 damage for hits

Quote:

We don't need "all those enchantments". You put a few on the bar to counter the situation you will be facing. Fact is, the Dervish has plenty of skills to counter any situation, and if a Warrior can counter degen, melee hate hexes and god knows

I like how you ignore the fact that dervishs are owned by both melee and caster hate, warriors aren't. Warriors have superior DPS (in the form of DSlash) and don't need a single enchantment to survive. I would like to see a dervish go into a high end area (at least lvl 28+) and not rely on any enchantments.

Quote:

se with WY and a -40 armour during activation heal sig (which takes them 2 secs to just stop fighting for that, a Dervish throws up the self heals before a fight and hardly has to worry about healing.) i rest my case.

WY helps the whole party. Most of the (usable) dervish skills don't give the party a good bonus. That alone makes WY superior in most situation

-40 armour is to balance the fact that a warrior is the hardest to kill with normal damage. That and Heal sig doesn't require any energy, something that a dervish cannot to readily access. I will call your lies if you say you only have to cast your enchantments before the fight, I have not seen one Dervish (and this is includes observer mode in high-end PvP) only cast enchantments at the beginning of the fight and now need to renew them.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 04, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

And then you get mashed in by some sins and/or warriors and your monk goes to heal you but.......

As i said, combine with physical resistance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I find it hard to believe that you can consistently hit +100 damage for hits

I do it, so it doesn't matter what you think, seeing as you blindly don't want to accept Warrior's can be outdamaged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I like how you ignore the fact that dervishs are owned by both melee and caster hate, warriors aren't. Warriors have superior DPS (in the form of DSlash) and don't need a single enchantment to survive. I would like to see a dervish go into a high end area (at least lvl 28+) and not rely on any enchantments.

I like how you ignore the fact Dervish have counters to everything. Fact. In DoA? Yes, Dervish is enchantment heavy as it's the tank.. as is the Warrior, from bonding. So where are your lvl28+ areas? GW:EN? HM? In both my main build is Lyssa.. the 1 enchantment on that bar.. Eternal Aura. There we are then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

WY helps the whole party. Most of the (usable) dervish skills don't give the party a good bonus. That alone makes WY superior in most situation

Oh Watchful Intervention and Imbue Health just saves somebody's life, but yea ya know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

-40 armour is to balance the fact that a warrior is the hardest to kill with normal damage. That and Heal sig doesn't require any energy, something that a dervish cannot to readily access. I will call your lies if you say you only have to cast your enchantments before the fight, I have not seen one Dervish (and this is includes observer mode in high-end PvP) only cast enchantments at the beginning of the fight and now need to renew them.

When i was talking about VoS. Two 1/4 sec enchants going up before VoS.. compared to a 2 second break, kiting out of danger a bit.. to Heal sig (and if you don't kite you take as much damage in those 2 seconds as you heal for.) Also, please don't refer to observer mode high-end PvP when you don't actually take notes on what you see. The Melandru Dervish used in GvG... uses NO enchantments.

Age · Sep 05, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

[QUOTE=Perfected Shadow]If played right, warriors can be very useful, it's just the Mending/HH/HB wammos that give them a bad reputation.

Quote:

You're only talking about pvp. With the highest armor rating, warriors ARE used as tanks in pve.

That maybe your opinion but I am not one of them as I switch targets and do more damage than a tank.I can out do an Ele.If Warrior played like PvP Warriors they would be better at it and I do use frenzy.

Kern Wolf · Sep 05, 2007, 04:08 AM // 04:08

To the OP:

If you haven't read your thread recently, you will now find that it has degenerated into yet another stupid "Warrior vs. Dervish" fight. Ignore all postings after my first one, put me on your friend's list, and PM me ingame for actual advice. I'm normally on between 7-10PM E.S.T.

To the mods-please close this thread. It has now become absolutely useless.....

Criminally Sane · Sep 05, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kern Wolf

To the OP:

If you haven't read your thread recently, you will now find that it has degenerated into yet another stupid "Warrior vs. Dervish" fight. Ignore all postings after my first one, put me on your friend's list, and PM me ingame for actual advice. I'm normally on between 7-10PM E.S.T.

To the mods-please close this thread. It has now become absolutely useless.....

Also ignore everything by Darkpower Alchemist, as he is pretty clueless.